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UPDATE: Lee Roberts has been officially selected for the post.
Lee Roberts, the interim chancellor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, is one of four finalists for the permanent role heading into a final decision this week, according to multiple sources close to the process.
The sources, who have direct knowledge or involvement with the search and asked not to be named to discuss the confidential process, said the Chapel Hill Board of Trustees voted on Monday to send an unranked slate of four candidates to UNC System President Peter Hans for consideration. On Friday, the Board of Governors will convene a special session to vote on Hans’ pick.
“We believe the final candidates are the best of the best,” search committee chair Christy Page said during the Monday meeting. “We are confident that our next chancellor is in this group of candidates.”
It has been widely speculated that Roberts would assume the role ever since Kevin Guskiewicz announced he was leaving to become president of Michigan State University and UNC System President Peter Hans appointed the co-founder of SharpVue Capital and member of the UNC System’s Board of Governors to serve as interim chancellor last December. The media relations office for Chapel Hill said Roberts was not available for an interview and did not respond to specific questions for this story.
Roberts has extensive political connections from his time as state budget chief under Republican Gov. Pat McCrory, but critics have noted his lack of significant academic experience and that much of his previous work was in behind-the-scenes finance roles. An alumnus of Duke and Georgetown universities, Roberts had no UNC System ties before his appointment to the Board of Governors in 2021.
Still, in his semester as chancellor, Roberts secured support from conservative governing board members and politicians—and even impressed and surprised some skeptics.
Faculty who spoke with The Assembly, including leaders who’ve worked with Roberts directly and others watching from a distance, conceded that he’s shown chops for managing the complex constituencies of higher education and a willingness to listen, even when he might not like what he hears.
“He asks very good questions. He seems to be a thoughtful person,” said Mimi Chapman, a former faculty chair who co-founded the Coalition for Carolina, a 501c4 that has strongly criticized political interference in higher education. “I have not seen him become defensive about choices that he’s made, if he’s being critiqued in any way. So those are all very positive qualities to me.”
Two former chancellors and two former trustees who spoke with The Assembly pointed to Roberts’ insistence that he reports to the UNC System president, not the members of governing boards, as proof he’d be willing to stand up to political interference.
But Roberts has also made controversial decisions that attracted attention and support from some circles and criticism from others, particularly his handling of a pro-Palestinian encampment in late April. Roberts ordered police to clear the encampment at daybreak and, later that day, personally rehung the American flag after protesters took it down and put up a Palestinian flag in its place—a moment that went viral.
“He was certainly, I think, for most of the campus, kind of an unknown quantity because he doesn’t come from within.”
Mimi Chapman, a former faculty chair
Other changes, like ending the long-held tradition of a student-led honor court and reexamining the role of the 165-year-old Campus Y, have sparked concerns about how much he respects shared governance processes.
If Roberts is named chancellor, presidential search experts, outside consultants, and UNC System observers told The Assembly that he will have to contend with perceptions about the independence of the search process and the political leaning of governing boards. And Roberts will be inheriting complicated political terrain—both on and off campus.
“There’s a lot of constituents out there,” said Holden Thorp, who served as Chapel Hill’s chancellor from 2008-2013. “Lee Roberts has to decide every day which ones are the most important and which ones he puts effort into getting on his side.”
Wait and See
In the days after Hans announced him as interim chancellor last December, Roberts quickly laid out his priorities.
“Do no harm” was the first he cited in an interview with The Assembly. Second, he said, was to ensure a smooth transition; third, to listen to faculty and students to get them what they needed; and finally, to leave the institution “a little bit better” than how he found it.
At the time, Roberts said he had no designs on the permanent role. “I haven’t even crossed that bridge yet,” he said.
Yet Roberts’ name had already been floated across campus and in media reports in the weeks after word broke that Guskiewicz was up for the presidency of Michigan State. Guskiewicz, a neuroscientist who rose through the academic ranks before becoming chancellor in 2019, had reportedly agreed to leave his post at Carolina by the end of that academic year.
On the heels of Guskiewicz’s departure, some worried that Roberts’ lack of academic experience and political connections would increase politicization of the UNC System.
“There is a good deal of distrust right now with the decision-making process. And this doesn’t reside just with the chancellor,” said Beth Moracco, the chair of the Faculty Council. “I think there’s a wariness among faculty, particularly with someone coming in who doesn’t have a background in higher ed, hasn’t spent time in the classroom, in all the ways that faculty do.”
People were watching his spring semester closely.
Erik Gellman, a history professor who serves as the interim vice president of Chapel Hill’s American Association of University Professors chapter, said he had “mixed emotions” and a “healthy skepticism” of Roberts’ interim appointment but wanted to let him “prove who he is as a person and not cast judgment before he’s had a chance to act.”
“He was certainly, I think, for most of the campus, kind of an unknown quantity because he doesn’t come from within,” Chapman said.
Sue Estroff, a professor in the School of Medicine who served as the chair of the Faculty Council in the early 2000s, said she and others were concerned about Roberts’ appointment in the context of the decade-long shift toward conservative control of system governance.
“Lee Roberts has to decide every day which ones are the most important and which ones he puts effort into getting on his side.”
Holden Thorp, former UNC-CH chancellor
“Behind the scenes, most of us thought that this was just part of the setup, for him to take over the reins and make sure that whatever the legislature and the Board of Governors wanted would happen,” Estroff said.
However, Estroff said she and others have been “pleasantly surprised” by most of his actions this spring.
Moracco said she’s also heard that sentiment on campus. After he was appointed but before he officially assumed the role, Roberts reached out to the faculty chair to schedule a meeting. Her first—and enduring—impression was that Roberts was “eager to learn.” He peppered her with “nuts and bolts” questions about faculty governance structures and committees, and he regularly turned to her throughout the semester to gauge faculty opinion and advice about who to talk to.
“I have appreciated the kind of in-depth questions that he asks,” Morocco said. “I do think it reflects a desire to learn and to understand the perspectives of a variety of people who are engaged with the university.”
Some of his early public statements underscore that willingness to meet with campus stakeholders. On his fifth day on the job, Roberts addressed the Faculty Council and emphasized that he was not there to tell them how to do their jobs. “I know you know what you’re doing,” he said. He closed his first address with an invitation: “My door’s open.”
He also sought advice from his predecessors and former governing board members, including Roger Perry, a former chair of Chapel Hill’s Board of Trustees and Coalition for Carolina cofounder; Paul Fulton, a former trustee and Board of Governors member; James Moeser, who was chancellor of UNC-Chapel Hill from 2000 to 2008; and Thorp, who served as chancellor from 2008 to 2013.
Moeser, who didn’t know Roberts before his appointment, said he’s come away from his conversations with Roberts and observations of him in action with the belief that he would lead the university in a “nonpartisan fashion.” In their initial meeting and others that followed, Roberts’ inquisitiveness impressed Perry.
“He was an extremely good listener,” said Perry. “He was obviously a very bright, very smart fellow.”
Roberts has also proven to some observers that he will stand up to interference from the Board of Trustees. Several people who spoke with The Assembly pointed to his defense of athletic director Bubba Cunningham after the trustees ordered an audit of his department.
“He has reminded them time and again that he works for the president of the system. He doesn’t work for them,” Perry said. “I think he has done some things to try and rein in their overreach and their meddling style and manner.”
Part of the credit for that may rest with UNC System President Hans, who sent a memo to trustees on the day Roberts assumed the interim role asserting the trustees’ statutory “advisory capacity” to the chancellor and Board of Governors. The stated purpose of the memo, which became public months later, was to “empower the interim chancellor to lead UNC-Chapel Hill.”
“Being given that support by President Hans,” said Chapman, “I think gives him an opportunity to take those kinds of stands and lead in those ways where, whereas that might have been more challenging for chancellors prior to him.”
A Heated Moment
Roberts’ interim semester was not all smooth sailing.
The most divisive issue came as pro-Palestinian protests and encampments took root on campuses nationwide. Those tensions reached a boiling point for Chapel Hill in late April.
At dawn on April 30, Roberts ordered police to clear an on-campus encampment, resulting in 36 arrests. At a rally later that afternoon, pro-Palestinian protesters took down an American flag flying on campus at Polk Place, replacing it with a Palestinian flag. Roberts moved swiftly to condemn the action. Flanked by more than a dozen police officers, Roberts personally went out to Polk Place to help raise the American flag.
“That flag represents all of us,” Roberts said. “To take down that flag and put up another flag—no matter what other flag it is, that’s antithetical to who we are, what this university stands for, and what we have done for 229 years.”
“That flag will stand here as long as I’m chancellor,” Roberts said.
The move drew national attention, with an outpouring of coverage from conservative news outlets and praise from North Carolina conservatives, including Lt. Gov. and GOP gubernatorial candidate Mark Robinson, Senate leader Phil Berger, and House Speaker Tim Moore. Moore told reporters that the university “ought to take that interim title off and name Lee Roberts the chancellor today.” Berger declared that there was “no question” that Roberts should be named the permanent chancellor.
Two sources directly involved in the search, who asked not to be named so they could discuss confidential deliberations, said the events proved Roberts was the right person for the job.
“I think it showed us, as leaders in the system, that we finally had an adult in charge at this university,” one source involved in the search process told The Assembly, pointing to past controversies such as that of Silent Sam. Protestors toppled the statue of the Confederate soldier in 2018, and outgoing chancellor Carol Folt later removed its remnants in a surprise last act. “We’ve had chancellors who would not stand up to this. … Lee Roberts made a clear statement about where our values should be,” the source added.
Marty Kotis, a former member of the UNC Board of Governors and current member of the UNC-Chapel Hill Board of Trustees, noted that other chancellors might have steered clear of such a contentious moment.
“That’s symbolic, and it shows what sort of leader Lee can be,” Kotis said. “He’s willing to go out [and] lead from the front, even if that puts him in personal danger.”
That same scene had the opposite impact on others in the campus community.
“He showed that he cared about making a political statement much more than he cared about students,” said Alexander Denza, a student organizer with the advocacy group TransparUNCy, which formed last spring and has spoken out against Roberts’ appointment. “He came out with an army of police officers behind him … in a political framing that is honestly quite astounding and scary.”
AAUP interim VP Gellman also said it sent the “wrong message” on the issue.
“It seemed to me like a bit of an audition for people who approve of these kinds of politics at the state level,” Gellman said.
The reactions from Republican leaders also inflamed campus perceptions that Roberts was a shoo-in for the position. “How does anybody expect us to get a good candidate pool when it’s already been announced by the people who basically call the shots that they’ve got their guy?” Estroff said.
To Michael Palm, an associate professor in the department of communications who is the president of the Chapel Hill AAUP chapter, Roberts’ handling of the protests should disqualify him from the permanent role. “After presiding over police attacking students on campus last spring,” Palm wrote in an email, “Roberts has no business holding any position at UNC, let alone serving as chancellor.”
In a letter addressed to Roberts and UNC-CH Provost Chris Clemens, nearly 900 faculty and staff members condemned the creation of a “militarized and unsafe climate” on campus and said it “subjected the very students it is charged with protecting to violence and trauma.”
Administrators “dishonored the university’s noble traditions of freedom of speech, freedom of expression, and respecting students’ rights to protest,” said the letter.
In response to the protestors’ divestment demands and student government requests to increase transparency surrounding the endowment, Roberts proposed the idea to form an investment advisory committee that would include student representation, said Jaleah Taylor, who recently began her term as the 2024-25 student body president. The committee, set to meet for the first time in the coming weeks, is a “dedicated body with diverse perspectives” across students and staff that will be involved in “institutional financial planning and investment choices,” according to the student government website.
“This is just definitely something that he [Roberts] helped initiate and kind of gave us the right people to get in contact with,” Taylor said.
Roberts has stood by his decision to call the police and clear the encampment. He has also faced those who disagreed, meeting with the faculty and staff who signed the letter, as well as a small group of Jewish faculty who raised concerns about the use of antisemitism as the justification for shutting down the protest.
Chapman, who signed the letter, and Gellman, who was part of the Jewish faculty group, said they felt heard, even if they still disagreed with Roberts’ decisions.
That aligned more broadly with what Moracco witnessed and heard across campus, both on the encampment and other issues that arose last spring.
“For the most part, he has been very proactive about communication and showing up, which is very important in that role,” she said. “And in instances where maybe he hasn’t been proactive, he has recognized it and actually, even in a couple of cases, come to apologize for not being more proactive.”
Beyond the protests, how Roberts’ political connections may affect his decisions remained a tension point throughout the spring. At a forum organized by the Coalition for Carolina, Roberts defended his seat on the corporate board for Variety Wholesalers, which is owned by former Republican budget director and major conservative donor Art Pope, and called the controversial new School of Civic Life and Leadership a “tremendous asset” and “source of pride.”
Also still looming over Roberts is how the university will respond to the Board of Governors’ repeal of diversity, equity, and inclusion policies. In a student forum hosted by TransparUNCy before the board vote, Roberts agreed with a student that diversity was a nonpartisan issue. When another student asked what he thought about trustees’ recent comments about DEI and anti-DEI legislation in Florida, Roberts said he would not take a stance on the political issue and that he “did not know anything about the Florida legislation.” The room erupted in laughter.
“There’s no similar legislation here,” Roberts clarified, adding he would not get into a “hypothetical” about similar policies in North Carolina. Less than two weeks later, the Board of Governors’ committee on University Governance voted to repeal the DEI policy.
If named permanent chancellor, questions remain about how beholden Roberts will be to the conservative boards and legislators that support him. “Those are the entities that give him the power to lead,” Chapman said. “And so the question becomes: What do they want in exchange? And can it be negotiated?”
‘Drip, Drip, Drip’
Other recent moves this summer have raised fresh concerns about how he might include the campus community in decision-making.
In mid-July, the university abruptly announced that it would end its student-led honor court. The century-old system at Chapel Hill was one of the few remaining student-led courts in the country. The university cited an increasing workload for student adjudicators, a 100-day average period to resolve cases, and an increasingly complicated legal landscape as driving factors in the decision. It will be replaced with a conduct board model run by university staff instead of students, who historically had the sole authority to evaluate their peers’ alleged academic and conduct violations.
Student groups quickly decried the decision, including TransparUNCy and student government. While Taylor noted that discussions about the honor court had been underway for a year, the announcement still came as a surprise.
“I was very disappointed,” Taylor said. “I found out just two days before that it was happening. … I think it was just frustrating because a lot of students, you know, woke up to an email that said, ‘the honor court system is no longer.’”
While the university told the News & Observer that the decision had nothing to do with the pro-Palestinian protests, Denza said he finds the timing suspect. “There’s definitely a bias in the administration against student protesters. … They wanted to clamp down harder on peaceful protesters.”
Estroff, who has served on the faculty hearing board for the honor court , said the “out of the blue” decision was a “real misread of context and history.”
“It stepped on faculty and student toes in a way that didn’t have to happen this way,” she said, and raised concerns about how Roberts sees shared governance and traditions.
Thorp, a former chancellor, said the change was long overdue, arguing that the court was “hellaciously slow,” “unfair,” and “classist.”
Another recent decision that has unsettled some faculty and students was the formation of a committee to examine the future of the Campus Y, which Roberts announced last week. Administrators temporarily shuttered the 165-year-old building known as a hub for student activism for five days after police broke up the encampment.
Student leaders of the Y posted on Instagram shortly after it reopened with reduced hours that they “are convinced that the attack on the Campus Y has not ended.” “We are the social justice hub and heart of this university,” read the post, which also included pro-Palestinian slogans. “We are here to stay.”
The committee met for the first time last Friday. Richard Stevens, a former Republican state lawmaker and trustee who is a co-chair of the committee, said Roberts tasked the group with looking at matters like the building’s hours, access, and governance.
Former chancellor Moeser, the other co-chair, said he recognizes student concerns about the committee. “The conservatives on campus want to close down the Y, ” Moeser said. “Students are incredibly afraid that that’s their intent.”
But Moeser thinks the committee is actually a “really good sign” for the institution, and it reflects that Roberts thinks there’s a future for the building. Both Moeser and Stevens said Roberts has confirmed to them that there are no plans to shut down the Y, even if changes are likely.
“You’ve got multiple users in a fairly small space in a prominent position on campus,” Stevens said, “so that’s not an easy task to unravel all that going forward and making sure everybody, as best as can be done, is happy with the outcome.”
Moracco acknowledged that many on campus believe that the recent decisions about both honor court and the Campus Y are connected to the campus protests.
“There is this feeling that shared governance and the value in shared governance has been eroded,” Moracco said. “Even if the timing of these events is coincidental, it feels like kind of this drip, drip, drip, right, of the role of faculty in shared governance being diminished.”
‘The Leopard May Change Its Spots’
Even if many believed Roberts was all but assured the permanent job, it didn’t deter applicants for the post, said Page, the chair of the search committee.
The committee was pleased with the strong pool of applicants interviewed in two days of closed session last week, Page said, and that they represented a diverse range of backgrounds.
“You kind of wish you could mix all the wonderful qualities together into some superhuman,” Page told reporters. “But we met a lot of superhumans.”
Roberts wouldn’t be the first Board of Governors member to assume a chancellorship. In 2021, Darrel Allison was selected to lead Fayetteville State University following a widely criticized process. Allison had no higher education experience beyond his time as a political appointee. Roberts would be the second interim chancellor to ascend to a permanent post in the last two years, after Kimberley van Noort assumed the helm of UNC-Asheville in November 2023.
Still, as an interim moving into the permanent role after a closed search, Roberts likely would have to combat the perception that the search was fixed, two search firm consultants and two experts on presidential searches told The Assembly.
Historically, provosts are most often selected for interim chancellor roles given they are the chief academic officers, said James F. Finkelstein, a professor emeritus at George Mason University who studies presidential searches. As college leaders leave their posts more quickly than ever, the number of interim leaders has grown.
“Even if the timing of these events is coincidental, it feels like kind of this drip, drip, drip, right, of the role of faculty in shared governance being diminished.”
Beth Moracco, chair of the UNC-CH Faculty Council
Judith Wilde, a George Mason professor who also studies presidential searches, said in an email that interims are rarely named the permanent president. In those rare cases, it is usually a provost or vice president who has long served at the institution. And no matter who the interim is, Finkelstein said the concern remains that those individuals pursuing the permanent post can dissuade others from applying.
“There’s a general sense that—whether right or wrong—people perceive that the position is wired for the person who’s serving as the interim,” he said.
Kevin Matthews, the CEO of an interim-specialized search firm called The Registry, said the firm “actively discourages” interims from throwing their hats in the ring due to concerns about the leader’s ability to govern after the search. Given the culture of shared governance in higher education, Matthews said institutions should expect “blowback” if the community believes they’ve participated in a “sham” process.
“Will the institution’s community accept your role as legitimate?” Matthews said. “Or would it appear to be something that was predestined and arranged?”
There are cases where it makes sense for the interim to assume the permanent role, said Melinda Leonardo, who leads the interim division for the firm AGB Search. If the candidate is well-liked and well-received with a broad consensus across campus, the “perception” of the search shouldn’t be much of an issue, she said. It becomes more of a problem if that consensus is lacking.
“I think there’s got to be significant transparency,” Leonardo said. “Otherwise, that candidate is going to be coming into a situation that isn’t as healthy or as easy as it would have been if the community was championing their selection.”
It’s not clear Roberts has such a consensus on campus. The search committee canceled additional community listening sessions last month; Page and Hans said they felt like the volume of community feedback from earlier efforts had given them what they needed.
Thorp, who said he disagrees with some of Roberts’ policy decisions but would support him as chancellor, said Roberts will have to deal with the campus’ perception of the search head-on. “The only way to overcome it is to operate the place in a good way and to win those constituents over one action at a time,” he said.
While Roberts’ may face perception hurdles, his spring semester was enough to convince Perry, who said he was predisposed to be critical of Roberts. Given the current political realities of the system, he feels Roberts is a good choice.
“For a non-academic, he would be a good chancellor, especially in the light of the fact that whoever was going to be chancellor was going to have to be someone who basically passed the smell test for the legislature,” Perry said.
For Stevens, the trial run as interim proved Roberts can handle complex constituencies and the multitude of pressures on the chancellor. “Lee has the abilities, and he’s a quick study. … I think he’s well poised to do a good job.”
Moeser is “cautiously optimistic” about Roberts and the future of the university, though one big issue looms in his mind. “Will he protect academic freedom?” he asked. “That’s a key question.”
Even if some have come to accept Roberts, Denza said students in TransparUNCY certainly do not. The group sees Roberts as the last “step” in completing the conservative “takeover” of higher education in the state. Estroff also questions whether acceptance really just reflects a sense of defeat.
“This is how we lose our souls. To say, ‘Oh, it was inevitable, it could be worse,’ or whatever.” Estroff said. “Many of my colleagues are people of good faith, and we certainly hope for the best. And, yes, we could do worse—but is that really, really what Chapel Hill deserves?”
It’s difficult to know how Roberts’ performance as the interim compares with serving as the permanent chancellor. Finkelstein, the presidential searches expert, said interims aren’t often forced to confront as many tough decisions or political disputes.
“Once you’re in that permanent position, the leopard may change its spots,” he said. “Being an interim is not the same as being in the permanent position.”
Greensboro editor Joe Killian contributed reporting.
Disclosure: Richard Stevens previously served as a member of The Assembly’s board of directors.
Erin Gretzinger is a higher education reporter at The Assembly. She was previously a reporting fellow at The Chronicle of Higher Education and is a graduate of the University of Wisconsin at Madison. You can reach her at erin@theassemblync.com.